25 Feb. 1946 Q. The other day when you told us about riding on the train with MATSUOKA in reply to my question relative to the proposed Non-Aggression Pact and your discussions with him at that time you indicated that there was a change in world conditions that prompted your conversation with him at that time. What did you have in mind? A. I meant this matter of German-Soviet relations, of which I have been speaking to you just now. Q. It seems to me in the light of all you have told us with respect to the authority of your Foreign Minister when he arrived in Germany with respect to this Non-Aggression Pact with Russia, he must have had some instructions from the Government in Tokyo before he left. Do you know whether he had any instructions? A. Yes. I do not know what his instructions were, but he definitely must have had some. Q. Now, since the Government in Tokyo had given him some instructions relative to this Russian problem it is not clear to me why you either in your capacity as Ambassador or in an unofficial capacity should offer any opposition or any suggestions contrary to the views of the Government in Tokyo. A. I did not offer any concrete objections. Further, it is clearly stated in the Japanese statutes that I may offer suggestions even if there are definite orders given. Q. But, General, this is the thing that puzzles me. You are Ambassador from Japan to Germany and you are very greatly concerned with affairs between Japan and Russia. A. If the changing conditions arise from influences within Germany where I am the Japanese Ambassador, it is within my rights to speak about them. Just to clear this matter up, I want you to understand that MATSUOKA was in accord with my ideas and there was no opposition to any plan or ideas that he had. Q. Your conversation on that train with him would not so indicate. I have reliable information to the effect that your purpose for taking the ride on the train with MATSUOKA was a last minute attempt to dissuade him from obtaining this Non-Aggression Pact with Russia, and that seems inconsistent with what you have been telling me this afternoon. A. That is a definite lie. There are all kinds of falsehoods flying around. One is to the effect that Ribbentrop asked MATSUOKA not to sign the Non-Aggression Pact and MATSUOKA went ahead with it anyway. This is also definitely untrue. Q. General, during the years that you served in Germany you became well acquainted with the German Military authorities. That is true, is it not? A. While I was Military Attache I had many occasions on which I met them, but later, after I became Ambassador, I never met them, except at social functions. Q. But after you became Ambassador you had frequent conferences with Hitler and frequent conferences with Ribbentrop, and it would seem there are no other people in Germany who would be better informed with respect to prospective military action than Hitler and Ribbentrop. A. Hitler yes, but not Ribbentrop. 143