6 March 1946 meetings were the times that he came to see me, and in addition there were four occasions on which I went to see him. As Himmler’s organization did not start to function along these lines until after the start of hostilities, it becomes very strange that he should - if he did - take any interest in such matters and come to me, who was Ambassador, rather than go to the man who would be directly connected with these matters. Q. At this point, General, I want to remind you that in the statement of Himmler’s that we referred to yesterday it is pointed out that this organization that involved Japan and German counter-espionage, which was undertaking long-range projects aimed at the disintegration of Russia, was to become effective only in case of war. A. I recall that statement that you made yesterday. The second point is that Himmler could not possibly discuss the functions of German counter-intelligence, which were strictly the duties of Captain Cannaris’ Section. There was very bad feeling between this outfit and Himmler’s. Further, this business of using balloons, sending men to kill Stalin, and using a motor boat in the Black Sea, etc., are fairly important things, and had I discussed such matters that would remain in my memory, but I have no such recollection whatsoever. Regarding the Falkensee property, this was bought in the name of a Captain in the office of National Defense, and I believe it was bought about a year before this alleged meeting with Himmler took place. Why I should talk about it at this alleged meeting, when a year had passed, is very strange. Also, regarding the number of White Russians, which you said to be six, I knew nothing about how many they were using or any of the details thereof. Also regarding the matter of the man in Afghanistan, my recollection is that he was expelled for suggesting Anti-Russian movements, whereas you say that the document states he was expelled for trying to overthrow the Afghan Government. That is not my recollection of the matter, and is very strange. In regard to the use of the motor boat and the balloons, this document which Himmler is alleged to have written does not go into details, which would appear very strange, because it would certainly be his interest if such a thing were true, to find out how and why and in what manner they were to be used. Also in regard to the Stalin assassination matter, I cannot see how any man could conceive such a plan and think that it would have any possibility of success. Further, if one man even out of the ten were caught, the whole thing would become public and create an international incident, so that I could not have even thought about doing what it is alleged I did. The fact that this document, which you say exists, contains reference to the Afghanistan matter and also the Falkensee property, it seems to me that in some way or other this misinformation was passed perhaps by Usui to his German Counterpart, Major Groskurt, and from there in what fashion I do not know became a document that somebody in the Counter-Intelligence Division wrote up erroneously. However, I am absolutely unable to figure why this alleged document should be credited to Himmler. To finish up on this matter, I just want to say that this matter of using espionage agents is something that every General Staff does and, therefore, I did not consider it important enough to tell you about in detail. Q. Where is Colonel Usui? A. Usui was killed at Rangoon, but his successor, who is now a Lieutenant General, I believe, should be around. His name is Manaki, and also in regard to this matter, if you will speak to Kasahara and Yoshinaka, I believe you should be able to get details. Q. Now, General, I believe you have told us that you returned to Germany as Ambassador the second time on or about February 16, 1941; is that correct? A. Yes. 185