1 Feb. 1330-1610 hours Minister had discussed the matter with the Foreign Minister and it would now be taken over by the Foreign Office and handled by them? A. Yes, that is correct. Q. Continue. A. Following the Ambassador’s return he told me that he now wished to find out in detail how the German Government wished to proceed and what its ideas might be - in other words, the time was ripe for a written proposal from the Germans. I communicated this matter to Von Ribbentrop and early in June a written proposal was delivered to me by a Von Laumer, an Assistant of Ribbentrop’s. This communication was still an unofficial proposal, but it was not addressed to the Japanese Govern- ment, but to the Ambassador so that a loop - hole might be left to change it before the final draft was submitted. Roughly, the idea was, I believe, that Ribbentrop wished to have the Japanese idea of whether the proposal would be acceptable before he brought the matter up with his Foreign Office or the Fuehrer. Q. Had Ribbentrop yet become Foreign Minister? A. He was not Foreign Minister yet, and he had come to get Ambassador Mushakoji’s private opinion on the proposal. The Ambassador answered by saying that on the whole he believed that the proposition would be acceptable to the Japanese Government, but that he could not commit himself, of course, until he had consulted with them, and it was only natural that certain changes would take place before the final pact was signed. Around the end of June 1936, Ribbentrop asked me to come to Nuremberg and there he presented me with the proposal which he stated had in toto been approved by Hitler and the German Government. This proposal he asked me to submit to the Ambassador. It was here at Wagner’s house that I first met Hitler - and this was during the Wagnerian Festival. Q. And that was at the time this proposal was brought over to the Ambassador? A. The German Government’s proposal was presented for the first time there. Q. My point is, at the time the German Government’s proposal was submitted to you for the first time, was that the same time you met Hitler? A. Yes. Q. Was the meeting of Hitler connected in any way with the transmittal of the official German proposal? A. Yes, it was because of this proposal, and although all my talking was done with Ribbentrop, when I was presented to Hitler, he told me that the matter was in Ribbentrop’s hands and asked me to convey the proposal to Ambassador Mushakoji. Q. Continue. A. Following this Ribbentrop returned to Berlin and he and the Ambassador carried on negotiations. I was present at some of the meetings. Finally, on 25 October, the treaty was signed. One treaty was the public Anti-Comintern Pact and the other the secret pact in which both nations agreed not to entlaften (ease or relieve) the U.S.S.R. I am not absolutely sure that this was the exact word used in the treaty, but the meaning was something like it. Q. Is it possible to obtain a copy of the secret treaty? A. I think that it should be at the Foreign Office. 23