12 Feb. 1946 Q. General, did you not think it rather unusual for Germany to negotiate a trade pact with Russia during a period of time when Germany and Japan were attempting to negotiate a pact that had Russia as its primary objective? A. There was absolutely no reason why they should not negotiate trade pacts. This right was definitely put down in the secret pact that we had signed previously. Q. That is the secret pact signed at the time of the Anti-Comintern Pact? A. Yes. Q. General, are you absolutely positive that you never had any suspicions regarding negotiations between Germany and Russia relative to this trade pact, even though Ribbentrop on the occasion of Hitler’s birthday party had suggested to you that Germany might discuss a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia? A. I had no such suspicions whatsoever. Q. Now, General, to clear up one or two more points: yesterday and before yesterday we have been talking about the Ito Commission. According to my information HIRANUMA became the Head of the Cabinet on January 5, 1939, and it was after HIRANUMA became Prime Minister that the Ito Commission left Tokyo, was it not? A. Yes, I believe it was after HIRANUMA took office. Q. Now, yesterday you made reference to the pact that was signed between Italy and Germany in 1939. I believe you indicated that was in May 1939, is that correct? A. Yes. It was in May. Q. Now, General, the pact that was signed between Germany and Italy in May 1939, was the pact that Germany wanted Japan to join in, was it not? A. No. It is an entirely different pact. In the first place it was a very strong treaty and had nothing to do with mutual aid in case of unprovoked aggression, but went much further; that is point number one. Secondly, this is something I can tell you absolutely without any equivocation: Ribbentrop told me definitely that the contemplated treaty with Japan was of an entirely different nature and had nothing whatsoever to do with the German-Italian pact. Further, I know this to be a fact. I had this written down as I intended to tell you of it later. Q. General, my information is that Japan was urged to join the pact that was signed in May 1939, but they elected not to, to remain aloof. A. No, that is not correct. Q. I have information also, General, that both you and SHIRATORI were reluctant to communicate to the German Government the fact that Japan would not join in the pact and that for a time there you even stayed away from Hitler and from Ribbentrop? A. No, that is not correct. It is absolutely false. Q. Did Hitler at any time threaten to renounce the Anti-Comintern Pact? A. No. Q. I have information to the effect that at the time Italy and Germany entered into the pact in May 1939, and Japan refused to do so, that Hitler became very angry and that at that time he threatened 61