13 Feb. 1946 Q. General, will you tell us the substance of the conversation that took place on that occasion? A. It was at the tea party, where many people were present, and he simply spent a few minutes with different members, so that he did not discuss any special matters. Q. But is it not a fact that on that occasion, both you and SHIRATORI in your conversation with Hitler agreed to do your utmost with a view to perfecting the Tripartite Pact, which was then only in the stage of negotiations? A. I have no remembrance of saying anything of the sort. Q. Do you deny that you said anything of the sort? A. Yes. Of course, he probably made some ceremonial remark to the effect that he hoped German- Japanese relations would continue on a friendly basis or something of the sort, but on any specific matter we did not speak. Q. You are positive about that, are you, General? A. Yes. Q. General, I have information from what purports to be a reliable source. It is from that information that I knew about this meeting you had with Hitler, so my informants knew you were there and they tell me that you and SHIRATORI had a long conversation with Hitler on the general subject of this proposed Tripartite Pact. A. I do not believe we spoke about the Tripartite Pact. You say a long time, but it was not a situation where one could speak for a long time. Q. Now, General, you have recited to us a rather detailed story of the events and negotiations looking to the Tripartite Pact. You have mentioned conversations you have had with Ribbentrop. Is it not a fact that Ribbentrop named Mr. Stahmer or appointed Mr. Stahmer as a sort of go-between to work with you on this matter? A. As Ambassador? Q. No. Not as Ambassador; as a representative from the Foreign Office to work with you in Berlin carrying on conversations and discussions with you about the matter you, as Ambassador, and he, as representative from the German Foreign Office, were working out the problem. A. Yes. He was the liaison man in Berlin. Q. Tell us about your association with Stahmer. Did you see him often? Did you work with him or just what took place between you and Stahmer? A. Stahmer was simply a go-between and carried Ribbentrop’s messages and brought his ideas to me and he very seldom ever put forth any of his own ideas or worked independently. Q. I want to go back to the Anti-Comintern Pact for a little bit. At the time the Anti-Comintern Pact was being discussed SHIRATORI was Minister to Sweden from Japan. Was he not? A. Yes, he was there during that period, but I am pretty sure that he returned to Japan prior to the time that the treaty was actually consummated. Q. But while the negotiations were going on, looking to the ultimate signing of the pact, you have indicated that you did have some conversations with SHIRATORI regarding the pact? 71