14 Feb. 1946 on such occasions discuss with him what may have been going on with respect to this proposed pact on which you had been working during your stay in Europe? A. I had met SHIRATORI, but I can definitely state that we did not talk of the Three Power Pact or formulate plans to revive it again. Q. Did not he on any of those occasions tell you what others were doing with respect to the revival of these negotiations? A. No. I heard many rumors, of course, on why Stahmer came to Japan, but I have never heard anything official from anybody in a responsible position. Q. Did you ever hear anything unofficial? I would say your conversations with SHIRATORI would not be official, but they would be conversations between two friends who had been very much interested in this proposition during the years that you were each serving as Ambassador in Europe? A. To the best of my knowledge SHIRATORI had very little to do with the pact; also that Stahmer’s conversations were mainly with Foreign Minister MATSUOKA. Q. Who succeeded you as Ambassador to Berlin? A. Kurusu. Q. And who succeeded Kurusu? A. I did once more. Q. Do you know if Kurusu resigned or if he was recalled? A. I have heard that he resigned, but perhaps the answer to this question had better be “I don’t know.” Q. When you heard he resigned, what did you hear was the reason for his resignation? A. This is not a matter directly concerning me and I do not feel that I should make any statements based on purely my own thoughts because it deals with somebody else entirely. At this time that MATSUOKA was Foreign Minister he recalled practically all the Ambassadors and perhaps Kurusu was among this group, although after I arrived in Berlin I heard from some member of the Embassy Staff that he had resigned. I know nothing further. Q. Who signed the Tripartite Pact for Japan? A. Kurusu. Q. So that you know as a fact then that Kurusu was not recalled immediately when MATSUOKA became Foreign Minister? A. Yes, I am aware of that. Q. You are aware also of the fact that it was after Kurusu signed the Tripartite Pact for Japan that he returned to Japan from Berlin? A. Yes. Q. Do you know if his attitude toward the Tripartite Pact that he had signed in Berlin for Japan had anything to do with his reason for returning to Japan? A. It is too difficult for me to make any statement upon that. Q. What is difficult about that? 81