18 Feb. 1946 A. MATSUOKA spoke to me of his meetings, but the matters on which he spoke were of such a general nature that I do not recall them. He did tell me how on his way to Germany he had spoken with Ambassador Steinhardt, the American Representative in Moscow regarding the United States and Japanese relations. Whether he told the Germans about this or not, I do not know. As I have already stated MATSUOKA’s conversations with me were of a general nature and the gist of his talks with Ribbentrop were related to me, but I cannot recall anything specific or binding that was decided upon by either party. Q. What was the reason for MATSUOKA’s visit to Germany? A. MATSUOKA told me that he had come in order to further his relations with the German Foreign Minister, as between the countries that had signed the Tripartite Pact it seemed only fitting and proper that the Foreign Ministers should be acquainted with each other. 4 Q. He was there for more than just getting acquainted, was he not? A. It is only natural to feel there must have been something beyond that. However, at this time in Japan there was a good deal of feeling, I believe, as to why he should go abroad simply to get acquainted with the other Foreign Ministers. This is my own opinion, but I feel that he must have been very interested in doing something about the Non-Aggression Pact. Q. That was the Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and Russia? A. I mean that he was interested in making a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia. Q. But he went to Berlin. Why did he go to Berlin? A. Ostensibly he was going abroad to see the Foreign Ministers of the Axis countries, but it is my own opinion that he went abroad to bring about a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia - which he did. Q. Did he not go to Germany for the purpose of ascertaining to what extent Japan might further fit in or commit herself to the German scheme and also see to what extent Germany could fit into the Japanese plans? Is not that the real reason he went to Berlin? A. I do not believe so. If he had done something like that it should certainly have become public knowledge. Q. General, I seriously doubt that would be public knowledge; it would be some more of those secret diplomatic negotiations and matters. A. I mean it should have become known to me, which it did not. Q. Are we to understand from you that you do not know why MATSUOKA went to Berlin? A. I am telling you all I know, and to the best of my knowledge and belief MATSUOKA came for no other purpose than that which I have stated. Q. What was the date of that meeting with Ribbentrop, at which you were present, as well as MATSUOKA? A. Right after he came, so that it must have been around the third or fourth of April. Q. Will you tell us as best you remember everything that was discussed and said at that meeting by each of the three of you, you, Ribbentrop and MATSUOKA? 4 The Tripartite Pact which keeps coming up was signed on 27 September 1940 by, respectively, Joachim von Ribbentrop, Galeazzo Ciano and Saburō Kurusu. As mentioned above this trip was in 1941. 100