18 Feb. 1946 A. That is something that happened some time ago and I am not able to recall. Q. General, you and I have for a period now of over two weeks been discussing matters that have gone back several years beyond the time that MATSUOKA went to Berlin. You have been able to remember in great detail events and conversations that took place during those years prior to the time that MATSUOKA went to Berlin. I want to know now why it is that you cannot remember what was said when MATSUOKA and you and Ribbentrop held that first meeting. A. I am not trying to hide anything from you. It is only that they spoke only of the most overall matters. I have read in the newspapers where Konoye in his memoirs states that MATSUOKA probably made some promise to attack Singapore - no, I believe it was stated that he made an important promise, but to the best of my knowledge and belief no such promise was made, nor have I heard anything about it. This was the first time that I knew of it or heard anything of it when I read about it in the newspapers. Q. This meeting between Ribbentrop, MATSUOKA and you took place very soon after you returned to Germany as Ambassador for the second time. I took place on the occasion your own Foreign Minister was in the country. It seems to me the circumstances were most unusual, and inasmuch as they were most unusual, it seems to me that you should be better able to remember what was said under such circumstances than would be true if it was just some minor affair. A. As I recall it, there was nothing of any great importance discussed at this meeting. The Germans kept a record of the meeting, I believe, and of meetings in general, so that if you can procure these records I am sure you will be able to find out what was said. As I thought it over in preparing my notes for my narrative I realized that it was somewhat rough at this point, but I honestly do not recall that they spoke about any important matters. Q. You may proceed with your narrative. A. One last point in regard to MATSUOKA’s trip: he could not have made any promises without having had the approval of the Army and Navy, and I am sure that he did not have this approval. Q. Why are you so sure of that? A. He had men from the Army and Navy along with him, who, when they came to see me, I asked if they had brought any specific instructions from the Military, and they said definitely not. Q. Maybe they did not have any specific instructions, but maybe the Foreign Minister met with the top military people in Japan before he left and he himself knew what to talk about in that regard, and how do you know he did not have such an agreement? A. Having received the approval of the Government to proceed on this trip and having Army and Navy men along with him, it would be impossible for them not to know if there had been such an agreement. Q. Yes, but you told us a while ago that in most of the meetings with Ribbentrop there were just Ribbentrop and MATSUOKA present. It is not clear to me then why they could not talk over matters that were not known to his advisors and that were not known to you? A. I was not at the meeting so that I do not know what they spoke about, so it is true they could have spoken about things that I know nothing of. However, I am saying that the Foreign Minister could not discuss, say joint military operations, as it was not within his ken. Q. You may proceed. One further point in regard to MATUSOKA’s visit is that the Army was 101