18 Feb. 1946 particularly desirous of having a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia and had he come for this express purpose it became wise to pay a visit to the countries who had been signatory to the Three Power Pact. Am I to understand from that that he went to Berlin and to Rome for the purpose of notifying the heads of the Government in Germany and Italy of the fact that Japan was going to attempt to enter into a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia? A. This is not anything that MATSUOKA told me himself, but I feel that had the binding of the Non-Aggression Pact been the prime motive and had it failed then, it would have looked better on the surface if he had paid a visit to the nations of the Tripartite Alliance. Q. It does not seem clear to me why MATSUOKA should follow such a course under the conditions that you have outlined when Germany never discussed with Japan the subject before Germany entered into a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia. A. I mean that it was not necessary for him to do so - that is speak to Germany and Italy about it. Point one, is that he came abroad for the purpose of meeting with the Foreign Ministers of Germany and Italy; this was the official reason. Point two is that, I believe, the real reason was to attempt to make a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia, and point three is that, had this mission failed, it would not have looked very good in Germany and Italy; therefore, while he was about it, he told the Germans and Italians of the matter. Q. That brings us right back where we started. His official reason was to meet with the Foreign Ministers and I have been trying to find out what he wanted with them, for I have great difficulty in making myself feel that he came all that distance during such perilous times for Japan and the European countries for the sole and only purpose to have a get-acquainted party with the Foreign Ministers. I think there is something else back of it, and I think you ought to tell us what it is. A. I believe from the beginning that his real reason for coming was to bind the Non-Aggression Pact. Q. General, I want you to think this over. I want you to think over that first meeting between MATSUOKA, Ribbentrop and yourself, and maybe after you think about it a while you may be able to give us a little more assistance. I am not through with the subject. We will come back to it another day. You may proceed with the narrative. A. That being that, as far as MATSUOKA is concerned, I will go on to the matter of United States- Japanese relations. Q. That will be point number two. A. In so far as it concerns Germany. In regard to MATSUOKA’s visit to Europe, I think that there are many other people in Japan who felt that his real reason was to make a Non-Aggression Pact with Russia, so that I wish you would look into the matter. Sometime in May 1941, word came to the German Foreign Office that United States-Japanese talks had started. This news did not come to me direct, but I received the same notice sometime later. The first thing here that I will discuss is what did Germany think about these talks. To put it briefly, I believe that Germany understood Japan’s position in this regard. When I spoke to Ribbentrop I explained to him that the Japanese Government wished to maintain the peace in the Pacific and that they were discussing matters with the United States relative to this. Ribbentrop said that he approved of the negotiations and that it was his desire that the United States stay strictly neutral, and in this regard stop sending United States arms to Great Britain - that he wished Japan to bring up this matter in the course of talks 102