1 March 1946 A. Stahmer was also present. In addition, a German Minister, Schmidt, acted as MATSUOKA’s Interpreter. I am certain that all these people were present at the initial meeting with Ribbentrop, but I am not absolutely certain that Ott and Stahmer were at the initial meeting with Hitler - however I think they were. Q. Do you know the first name of Schmidt? A. I do not now recall his first name. There were two Ministers Schmidt. This was the one that was the linguist. He interpreted for MATSUOKA from English into German and vice versa. Q. One other question about Schmidt. Schmidt, who was the linguist, I assume then, was present at all of the meetings at which MATSUOKA was present? A. At any meeting where German was being spoken Schmidt was probably present. However, Ribbentrop’s English is excellent, so I am not certain whether he was present at the meetings between MATSUOKA and Ribbentrop, or not. Q. Now, when you have held meetings with Ribbentrop, I suppose Schmidt was present? A. No. Q. What language did you speak when you were holding meetings with Ribbentrop? A. In German. I think you could put it this way: at all meetings held officially between the two Foreign Ministers Schmidt or some other Interpreter was present. However, in the private meetings between Ribbentrop and MATSUOKA, as both of them spoke good English, I cannot be sure that Schmidt or some other Interpreter was present. Q. You may continue, General. A. In regard to yesterday’s conversation about the attack clause in the Tripartite Pact would you be so good as to read it back to me, as I want to be absolutely certain as to how it was put down. Q. We will be glad to read it back. (The portion of the record referred to was read by Stenographer.) A. I find that to be substantially the words that I used and find it to be correct. Q. You may proceed. A. One thing before I continue. In regard to your question about whether I knew of the Japanese Ambassador to Italy having passed on essentially the same things that I had received in my orders from the Japanese Government to the Italians, I have thought it over very carefully and I still cannot recall having heard anything of the sort. In this regard, around this time, both Germany and Japan were extremely circumspect in trusting Italy with matters of a secret nature, as there had been leaks in Italy previously. Basing it on this, I feel that there was no such order, but I have no proof of it, nor do I have any recollection of it, so I cannot state definitely. 1 Q. You may continue. A. One other thing, before I proceed on matters following what I spoke of yesterday: sometime early in December prior to the start of the United States-Japanese hostilities, I received a dispatch from Japan to the effect that in case hostilities broke out between the United States and Japan, this 1 Actually OSHIMA himself and the Japanese code which had been broken by the Americans was a major leak on the part of Japan. 168