7 March 1946 A. The fact that he talked to me about the maps is true, but as I recall the date it was after MATSUOKA had left Berlin. Q. General, that could not be because I am reading to you from the record of the meeting at which MATSUOKA was present in Berlin. Now, at that meeting which took place on March 29, 1941, Ribbentrop said that he had already asked you to procure the map of Singapore. Now, it had to be before MATSUOKA got there or this could never have happened. A. It is very strange to me. I can only tell you what I recall and to the best of my recollection this matter of the maps came up sometime in April or May. There is no point in my hiding it if these conversations had occurred earlier. It was not as if I had discussed operational matters. Q. General, I have read to you the written record made on the 29th of March 1941, at a meeting attended by your Foreign Minister, MATSUOKA, in which Ribbentrop says that he talked to you about these maps on a date before the 29th of March 1941. It seems to me that you ought to be able to remember it because it surely must have happened or Ribbentrop could not have said so on the 29th of March 1941. A. Had it occurred I would gladly tell you about it, but I have no remembrance of ever having discussed the matter of maps before this date that you give me. It is to be expected that you question me on this point if the alleged document is in your hands. However, I cannot tell you anything beyond that which I remember because to do so would be to really be lying. Q. General, this is the first time you have intimated to us that you have talked to Ribbentrop about the map before it was delivered to Hitler. You told us when the map was first mentioned that you received word through the Foreign Office that Hitler wanted it. Now tell us about the meeting with Ribbentrop at which he talked to you about this map. A. As I told you the other day, I believe the word came through the Foreign Office that Hitler wished to see these maps, but it is possible that this word was passed to me by Ribbentrop. My memory may have been wrong. However, as I told you the other day, I cannot recall the date. I think it was sometime in May. Q. You also told us the other day that Hitler wanted this map of Singapore because he was a great student of geography and history and was interested in having a detailed map of Singapore. According to this record of the conference with MATSUOKA of March 29, to which I have referred Ribbentrop says that you were asked to procure the map of Singapore so that Hitler could advise Japan on the best method of attack on Singapore. Can you tell us anything more about that than what you have already said? A. What is stated in that document is entirely wrong - I would never discuss such matters with Hitler or anyone else. Q. General, you have told us already that you discussed with Hitler the difficulties that would be presented by an attack upon Singapore. You told him that it would take at least six months to do it. 1 Now, if you would say that much to him it is not unlikely that you would say everything else to him about that problem that you knew. A. It is common sense that looking at a map of Singapore the question would arise about whether it could be attacked from the sea or from the land. Over and beyond this, however, I did not dream 1 This was indeed said on a couple of occasions, but they did not take anywhere near six months to take Singapore. 193