11 Feb. 1946 Q. But he was supported by and had the confidence of the Military authorities, did he not? A. Yes, I believe so. He was well thought of by the Army following the stand he took during the Manchurian Incident; when as a member of the Foreign Office he stated that he felt that the Manchurian Incident was a natural outbreak. 1 Q. The other day you told us that he was the Japanese Minister to Sweden at the time he was named Ambassador to Italy. That is true, is it not? A. I do not recall making that statement, but he was Minister to Sweden. Q. Now, did the Military authorities in Japan urge his appointment as Ambassador to Italy? A. I do not believe that the case could be stated in this manner, for as you say he was Minister to Sweden, but had returned to Japan and was without portfolio at the time that he was named Ambassador to Italy. This was before any question of the Tripartite Pact had come up, and, therefore, it is my personal belief that the Army did not have much to do with his appointment. Q. You have known Mr. SHIRATORI for a long time, have you not? A. No. As a matter of fact I met him for the first time abroad in 1936. Q. What were the circumstances under which you met him in 1936? A. He was Minister to Sweden at the time and he came to Berlin on a pleasure trip and I met him at this time. Q. Is it not a fact that often, while you were conducting your negotiations with respect to the Anti- Comintern Pact, that SHIRATORI came down from Sweden to Berlin and met with you incident to those negotiations? A. He did speak to me one or two times, but contrary to what is generally publicized in magazines and newspapers he did not have a great deal to do with the consummating of this pact. Q. But during those days you and he exchanged ideas relative to this matter, did you not? A. Naturally, we did discuss the Anti-Comintern Pact, but there were no deep discussions on the matter. If you will ask SHIRATORI about this I am sure he will tell you the same story. Q. Will you tell us, General, if you know, who was responsible for his appointment as Ambassador to Italy? A. I was in Berlin, as you know, at the time, and hence do not know what the actual goings on were, but I believe, as I told you, that the Army did not have anything to do with his appointment. I believe that it was simply a regular rotation of duty within the Foreign Office. It is my remembrance that it was during the period when Ugaki was Foreign Minister, but I am not sure at all of the exact date. Q. General, did you ever go to Sweden to confer with SHIRATORI while the negotiations with respect to the Anti-Comintern Pact were going on? A. No. Q. When and under what circumstances did SHIRATORI first learn about the proposed Tripartite Pact? 1 This is probably the Mukden Incident September 18, 1931 which was staged by the Japanese and used as an excuse to invade Manchuria and establish the puppet state of Manchukuo. 51