11 Feb. 1946 A. I believe he knew about it before leaving Japan, as he arrived in Rome toward the end of 1938. It was after his coming to Italy that I first discussed the matter with him. Q. Tell us the circumstances under which you first discussed the matter with SHIRATORI. A. I first met SHIRATORI at San Remo, Italy, in January 1939. We had arranged to meet at some pleasant spot in order to talk over the progress in the negotiations for the Tripartite Pact. Q. How long prior to that was it that SHIRATORI left Japan? A. I am not certain, but I believe it must have been about a month before our meeting. Q. Did he send for you to come to see him or did you send for him, or how was this meeting arranged? Q. I do not recall which one of us called the other. We both wished to meet to discuss what I had done so far and what the latest feeling in Japan was in regard to the pact. Q. General, this meeting with SHIRATORI in Italy took place very soon after your return from Italy to Berlin, that is correct is it not? A. It was not much over two or three weeks. Q. You had been to Italy at the request of Ribbentrop with the approval of your Government for the purpose of attempting to persuade Mussolini to become interested in this Tripartite Alliance. That is true, is it not? A. Yes, that is correct. In other words, Germany, as I told you, had approached Italy about this matter in September, and later asked me to get Japan to urge Mussolini to join so that after receiving the sanction of my Government I went to Rome in December. Q. Now, early the following month, that is, early in January 1939, SHIRATORI was named Ambas- sador to Italy. That is correct, is it not? A. No. He was named Ambassador to Italy in the autumn of 1938, I believe - it was before I was named Ambassador to Germany. However, there is always quite a period between the time the Ambassador is named in Japan and the time he takes up his duties in the country to which he is accredited, so that he did not actually arrive in Rome until December 1938. Q. Now, General, my information is that he was named Ambassador to Italy in January 1939? A. To the best of my knowledge that is incorrect. Q. Is it not a fact, General, that SHIRATORI was sent to Italy as Ambassador for the express purpose of trying to persuade Italy to come along with this Tripartite Pact? A. I do not believe that this was the reason. However, he was named Ambassador in September or before perhaps, and while I am not certain of the reasons behind his appointment, it is my personal belief that the Tripartite Pact was not the principal reason. Of one thing I am certain and that is that he was named Ambassador before I was, as he took precedence over me at functions. Q. Does it not seem strange to you that he should arrive in Italy within about two weeks after you had been unsuccessful in persuading Mussolini to come along with Japan and Germany in this Tripartite Pact? A. That is a natural conclusion to draw, but the fact is that SHIRATORI’s coming was not certain and, as I remember it, I went to Rome not knowing when he would arrive in Italy. 52