11 Feb. 1946 Q. General, can you tell us when the Ito Commission left Tokyo enroute to Berlin? A. They must have left about the beginning of January, as they came by a fast Italian ship and it takes about four weeks so that it would follow that it would be the beginning of January, as they arrived in Berlin early in February. Q. And it would also follow that that was after you had been to Italy and had been unsuccessful in persuading the Italian Government to come along and join in the Tripartite Pact? A. Yes, that is correct. Q. And while that Commission was enroute to Berlin they stopped in Italy? A. Yes, on the road. Q. And while they were in Italy they discussed this matter with the Italian Government and also with Ambassador SHIRATORI, is not that correct? A. No. They did not speak with the Italian Government - only with SHIRATORI. The events chronologically are more or less as follows: I went to Rome, then later after SHIRATORI arrived we met at San Remo and discussed the Tripartite Pact. Later, after the Ito Commission arrived in Berlin SHIRATORI came there to speak to me again. Q. What was the reason for stopping three or four days in Italy to talk with SHIRATORI when immediately upon the arrival of the Commission in Berlin they had SHIRATORI come up to Berlin to talk about it? Why could not this all have been done in one place? A. I believe he wished to hear further details, as the Ito Commission had only spent three or four days in Italy on the first meeting. Q. General, as a matter of fact this Commission called on SHIRATORI for the same purpose as they called on you, to make it clear to both SHIRATORI and to you exactly what the Japanese Government in Tokyo would do; how far they would go or not go, is that not true? A. That is correct. I intended to speak to you a little more on this point and if you will permit me to continue my narrative, it will come out, but perhaps you would wish me to tell you about this particular matter now. Q. I was about to suggest that you proceed with your narrative from the point at which we left off at the last meeting, but I think it would be helpful if you would make such comments now with respect to this particular matter just referred to, as you care to make. A. As you asked me the other day what the Ito Commission had come for I thought it over and tried to recollect what the communication from Japan stated relative to sending this Commission. As I remember it, the main reason given was that there would be danger of a leak if communications were continued and it would be best to send spokesmen. Of course, later I heard rumors which I cannot say are either right or wrong, but which you may also have heard, so that I wish to pass them on to you. They were in effect that this Commission had come to make very clear to SHIRATORI and myself the Japanese Government’s changed stand upon the Tripartite Pact. Of course, they did not say that this was the reason in talking to me, but I repeat I have heard rumors to this effect. Q. General, tell us a little bit more about how and where you heard those rumors, where they came from? A. I heard of these matters from some of my subordinates who had probably received the rumor in 53