11 Feb. 1946 the mails from Japan - from their friends in the Foreign Office, or their family, or something - I do not know exactly from whom. Q. Why do you call them rumors if they emanated from Japan? A. There was nothing on the surface and nothing official, so that they would have to be called rumors. Q. You call them rumors then because you were not officially told of these things? A. Of course, I wondered why in answer to a simple telegram they would send three men, but the official reason given was that it was a security measure. Your questioning me upon this point is quite natural, as it does seem strange, but I can only say that I know nothing beyond these rumors that I just related. Q. General, it is a fact, is it not, that the views of Mr. SHIRATORI and the views of yourself with respect to this proposed pact at this stage of the negotiations were somewhat different from the views of your Government in Japan? A. No, I would not say that our views were different from the Government; rather it would appear that the Government’s ideas changed about the time they sent the Ito Commission. Q. That is my point, General, the Government in Tokyo had changed somewhat in its views, but you two gentlemen, one in Italy and one in Berlin, there where you were in communication with those Governments constantly, your views did not change automatically with the change in Tokyo; as a matter of fact you did not even know about it until Ito arrived, did you? A. We know of the fact that they wished Russia to be the prime object and all other countries secondary, but we did not know of the point being brought up that other countries would only be included if their Governments became Communistic, until the Ito Commission arrived. Q. So that actually the Ambassadors in Italy and Germany from Japan were more enthusiastic for the views that had been advanced by Ribbentrop, because you had been working along that line all this time? A. I would not say it was any specific individual’s ideas, as up to that time we had been working on the premise that the pact was to be concluded naming Russia as the principal object and other countries as secondary, and details were to be left until later. Q. So that then when your Government in Japan changed its position they sent the Ito Commission over to make it clear to SHIRATORI and to yourself of this changed position so that you would not go too far in your suggestions to Ribbentrop and to Mussolini, is not that correct? A. I would not say that they were sent so as to be a check on us, for up until this time we had been working as the Government desired - that is to say on this point of naming Russia as the principal object and the other countries as secondary. It is only later, as I told you, through rumor that I heard that the real reason the Ito Commission came was to make clear the change of views of the Japanese Government. Q. There was no rumor about the fact that the Ito Commission made it clear to you, General, and to SHIRATORI of the changed attitude of the Government in Tokyo? A. The Ito Commission never stated that these were the changed views of the Government, but that these had been the Government’s views all along. Q. And those views were somewhat different than the course Ambassador OSHIMA and Ambassador 54